Zhilei Zhang says "Wilder is out of Ammo!"

[TitoFan]

i'm just interested in the purses you read about do you remember how much was originally offered & how much they improved to? just roughly, i don't need exacts. i'm not claiming ducking but i am claiming both deontay & tyson avoided the perceived number one guy in the division at the time who held three of the four major belts to instead fight each other

I really don't, and I'm not too good at googling that kind of stuff. Suffice it to say the negotiations didn't start where they ended up.

[TIC]

i'm just interested in the purses you read about do you remember how much was originally offered & how much they improved to? just roughly, i don't need exacts. i'm not claiming ducking but i am claiming both deontay & tyson avoided the perceived number one guy in the division at the time who held three of the four major belts to instead fight each other

I really don't, and I'm not too good at googling that kind of stuff. Suffice it to say the negotiations didn't start where they ended up.

do you think where the offers improved to was better or worse than what deontay & tyson got to fight each other?

[TitoFan]

deontay's power always seemed overrated to me. there's a reason he targeted tyson on the comeback trail over aj

"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."

Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.

The following post I think is much more accurate:

The thing is, AJ dick riders will use this as an excuse to say AJ was better and would have beaten Wilder. But I contend the 2016/2017 Wilder would have knocked AJ spark out. Like he did Fury in the first fight, just that AJ would not have gotten up.

To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.

But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."

Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.

So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.

But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.

Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.

I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.

It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.

I’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.

Which proves what exactly... that Wilder was avoiding Joshua? That Wilder was scared of Joshua?

Spin it as you like. Fact is, they were both involved in an interminable (and to us fans, insufferable) back-and-forth from which Fury saved us all. It's one of the few things I give Fury credit for in his career. He took on the big, bad monster... and was successful. Had Joshua been as willing to take that challenge as Fury was... he was perfectly capable of making it happen.

Differently from most other boxing fans, I pay less attention to empty words from fighters on social media, and more attention to circumstances, track records, and intentions.

I can’t copy and paste it cos I don’t know how to , but this is a tweet from Wilder at 19.09 on 31/10/2020.

“ When that fight was a draw, I told you that I would give you a rematch. You know I was offered more money to fight Joshua than I was getting to fight you. Again being a man of my word, I fought you
like I said I would...”
clear as day , it’s down to Wilder why the fight never happened , nobody else.
Or perhaps when they were in negotiations and Wilder said he was “offering AJ” , when in fact Wilder was having an elbow op.
Anyway , see what you want to see, but Wilder got found out and never recovered.
AJ got found out by Ruiz and put it right , and got found out by Usyk and when straight back in with him.
And although he was beaten by the better man again, yes he had a meltdown in the ring immediately after, but what has he done since ? Everything possible to put himself in contention.

Oh so you're referring to AFTER Wilder had fought Fury the first time. As long as we understand each other.

So just to be clear, you're not pushing the "Wilder was ducking Joshua" rubbish angle.

Good.

Beyond that, I don't see anything you wrote which contradicts anything I've written.

I clearly stated that Wilder and Joshua have gone in opposite directions since then.

If it makes you feel better to say it in your own words, that's cool.

My point remains.

Claims that Wilder may have ducked (or been afraid to fight) Joshua are groundless and unsubstantiated. To be fair, the other way around can't be proven either.

Had Wilder and Joshua met when they were SUPPOSED to, IMHO it would've been a 50/50 fight.

Wilder was not yet damaged... and Joshua's style was not all wrong for Wilder.

Nothing more need be said.

Believe what you want to believe and read the bits you want and ignore the bits you want. But I reckon time has proved where Wilder and Joshua both are.

My English must be faulty.

I could've sworn I've said on repeated occasions that no one is disputing where "Wilder and Joshua both are" at the moment.

Our main difference lies in that I filter out social media nonsense like Tweets, and 3rd party "he-said-she-saids", and reach my conclusions based on actual occurrences.

You insist that it was Wilder that ducked Joshua, and I respond by telling you it's impossible to establish who ducked whom.

Wilder and Joshua blabbed and postured a whole lot... and in the end it was Wilder and Fury who fought.

You'd have to ask Joshua himself what his thought processes were during that time.

Social media nonsense? The tweet was from DEONTAY WILDER. HE SAID IT HIMSELF. Case closed.

"Deontay Wilder has consistently accused Anthony Joshua of avoiding a fight with him. Wilder has been vocal about Joshua’s reluctance to face him in the ring. Here are some key points:

Negotiations and Split Demands:
In 2017, Wilder insisted on a 50-50 split for a potential fight with Joshua, emphasizing that it was a significant bout that fans wanted to see.
Joshua, on the other hand, demanded a 70-30 split against the winner of the Wilder-Fury rematch in 2020, despite being 1-1 in his last two fights.
Wilder’s team even shared an email from Eddie Hearn (Joshua’s promoter) that they believed proved Joshua was the one ducking the unification fight.
Eddie Hearn’s Statements:
Eddie Hearn, Joshua’s promoter, made conflicting statements. In 2018, he called the Wilder fight a massive high-risk opportunity but questioned whether Wilder was worth a 60-40 split.
Hearn also mentioned that if he were Joshua, he would leave the Wilder fight for a while.
Wilder’s Candid Remarks:
Wilder himself has been straightforward, saying, “Joshua don’t want to fight me. It’s plain and clear” in an interview.
He has expressed a desire for the fight to happen but also hinted that he might duck Joshua again.
In summary, the saga between Wilder and Joshua has been marked by negotiations, split demands, and accusations. Fans continue to hope for a showdown between these two heavyweight champions, but the road to that fight remains uncertain."

But hell... you're right.

Why... I just saw a YouTube titled "Deontay Wilder ADMITS He Is Ducking Anthony Joshua!! | Truth Revealed By Wilder!!!" in which a guy with a British accent talks for 5 minutes (not one quote or voice from Wilder) and makes his case about Wilder ADMITTING that he ducked Joshua.

Damn. Hard to argue against cold, hard facts.

BTW, @TIC I believe you're initial offer question is answered there.

[TIC]

the fight should have happened towards the end of twenty eighteen. before deontay chose tyson & aj chose alexander povetkin. i think i remember charles martin getting five million for aj, do you think that is in the realm of the percentage deontay was offered around that time? do you know if deontay's team sent back a counter offer? or any offer of their own?

[TitoFan]

the fight should have happened towards the end of twenty eighteen. before deontay chose tyson & aj chose alexander povetkin. i think i remember charles martin getting five million for aj, do you think that is in the realm of the percentage deontay was offered around that time? do you know if deontay's team sent back a counter offer? or any offer of their own?

I thought the initial offer split was actually worse than 70/30, but that may be tougher for me to find. I'm pretty sure the article I posted said something about Wilder wanting 50/50. Not sure if formal counteroffers were made. All I remember is that... even in today's boxing of interminable negotiations... these were more tedious and tiresome than most.

[NoSavingByTheBell]

Wilder's fiancee files for restraining order https://youtu.be/Dp7LqKY3LnM?si=UFmA4hkKlp-jyuqq