Learning and Boxing

Ive come to the conclusion that it is impossible to make a good boxer. you cant train just anyone to be good, rather, he either has it or he doesnt. by this im not referring to special muscles fibres or magically resiliant chins; im talking smarts. good boxers are smart men who can figure things out on their own, who can put two and two together. people like this usually end up becoming something of worth with their god given smarts. its rare that you would come across this type of soul in a boxing gym. nevertheless some do find their way into boxing and, quite naturally, do very well. its up to the tainer to give them the basic tools with which to box but the rest, the heart and soul of what it means to 'box', is up to them. some people will and some others wont. depending on the type of person he is ultimately determines what type of boxer he will be.

have you heard some of the greats talk? there aint an ounce of brain in there. 8)

Im a very smart man (without tooting my own horn). Yet i get my ass whooped every time i step in the ring, by people with not an ounce of education.

Yes i do believe theres a difference between natural born boxers and your average joe, but it doesnt get realised until your elite.

A lot of the Top of the league boxers, people like Mayweather, Hopkins, Tyson, Morales and Barrera were all made to box. They were born with talent, and people without this talent cannot compete. Yet look at the lower ranks there filled with well-trained average joes. They will never be as top as the aforementioned boxing-gods, but they can still be good.

See my point. Theres a very fine line between somebody who has been well trained and somebody with "the talent", but its still there i believe.

Good post.

I'm a rather well educated guy myself (working on masters degree number 2) and I think natural intelligence makes it a bit easier to learn, that's true, but it doesn't matter how smart or well trained you are... only a few are ever going to be elite. It's like any other sport. Some guys just have the God given ability to make it to the top of their sport. And all the others, while they can become good through hard work, will never be as good no matter what they do.

As a rule of thumb the guys that make it, want it more. Also they seem to be in the right place at the right time with the right people.

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Originally Posted by Von Milash

Good post.

I'm a rather well educated guy myself (working on masters degree number 2) and I think natural intelligence makes it a bit easier to learn, that's true, but it doesn't matter how smart or well trained you are... only a few are ever going to be elite. It's like any other sport. Some guys just have the God given ability to make it to the top of their sport. And all the others, while they can become good through hard work, will never be as good no matter what they do.

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im not really talking about book smarts. i mean more like intuition; having a feel for everything going on in the ring and being able to respond fittingly. i dont think that can be taught to someone. they either have the capacity for it before they ever step in a gym or they dont. key example: james toney - you can teach anyone his defensive moves but that wouldt make them do the things he does. how many people have you seen attempt to block with the shoulder and fail horribly?

You gotta have an aptitude for boxing. In boxing things are learned in pieces, and like you said a fighter has to put two and two together and figure things out on their own. When Ray Leonard walked into a boxing club he didn't even know how to hold his hands up right, when they asked him to he looked like a John L. Sullivan. Except Leonard had enthusiasm, you can call it drive, commitment or whatever you want but enthusiasm goes a long way. Leonard as with many good fighters made sense of the moves and learned the moves as fast and as fast as they were taught them.

The fighters who fail horribly can't make any sense of things. As for "feel" a fighter needs an intuition that acts accordingly to the fight without the fight talking to himself in his head. Training shouldn't be canned dress rehearsal; it should be to get condition and to build an aptitude, a 'feel' for the fight and the guy in front of them. A lot of guys miss the point and start asking how to get a 6 pack, how to get the right muscle fibres, or get caught up on one point while the real fighters keep getting better. If you want the works you gotta learn the rope through sparring/fighting smart, not by pushing iron or looking for a magic bullet that's going to make things easy.

Having a feel for what's going on isn’t talking to yourself in your head, it’s more of a sense than it is thinking about it. In a fight too much thinking and not acting fast enough will get people knocked out. It’s okay to build on thoughts while in training but while in the ring these have to be made instinctive. Instincts gotta made in the rigors of training particularly sparring and past fights.

Past the talking to yourself stage, here are some instincts a fighter feels:
-How to move around the ring, how to do the right moves defensively/offensively...
-Looking to see what punches the opponent commits to.
-Finding what makes the opponent commit to a punch.
-Drawing the opponent in; the setup.
-Seeing if the opponent makes any preliminary moves, what do they telegraph?
-See how they shift their weight before they punch, what do their arms and body say before and while they punch...
-How do they use their jab, clinch, etc... etc...

Now I could keep going but I'm just adding to the point Tom made about fighters who just get it and the failures who are far from it. If any of you fighters want to be a good fighter then you gotta figure things out on deeper level and put it all into action knowingly and instinctively. This is what separates the haves and the have-nots in the ring.

Come on, guys - there is a massive difference between base natural intelligence and having an education.

If I can just get in between all the smug back patting going on, having a good education (and therefore a qualification like a degree or something) just means that somebody has told you something, and that you remembered it for long enough to pass a test on it. That takes some intelligence, but it certainly does not mean that much? Not only do we simply accept what we are told (especially in things like physics and biology, which are changing all the time) we get given points for regurgitating unoriginal thinking that may well have been disproven by exam time.

This sort of thing also makes one less open to new lines of thought, as we are conditioned to believe what we have learned.

Natural intelligence is the ability to create original thought, mount logical challenge and reach new conclusions all on your very lonesome.

I have met some uneducated people who are much more intelligent that some people I have met with doctorates.

I mean, the singer from Doctor and the Medics proves this ;)

In the ring nothing should be left to hypothesis, you either got it together or you don't. Original thought is all fine and well but in the heat of a bout their isn't much room to turn on your think tank.

This is past book smarts and higher education, it's about taking an unatural system and making natural actions from it. It's more natural to flail away, flinch and leave yourself open than it is to naturally come a proper arm guard position and throw punches precise effective way. Training is polishing out all the natural tendencies that jeopardize a fighter and developing a new coordination and feel for boxing.

There isn't time for a whole lotta thought process to go on in fight night, you either have had the moves drilled into your head, sparred enough to have a feel and insight or you better bring a platter because if the other guy has it together you're done.

Getting back to what Mr. Tabin brought up I think it is possible to make a good fighter, but it's not so much in the trainer's hands as it is the learning fighter. Besides the attitude the fighter has make sense of the pieces of boxing and put it to use in an effective manner.

I think this a great subject.
Alot to be learnt from many different areas here.
Talking pro fighting champions more than amature.

This sport is tough,that counts for a lot. If your tough enough you dont need to worry; (which effects thinking under pressure) and so you are more freed up mentally to utilize your natural abilities under stress.

Brains aside just for miniute.
Take Mike Tyson. A real Champ for his time (and it was timing) who was trained by a real champions trainer in a certain way,to suit his own physical traits and his own determination , hatred was even brought into the equation;This was all mixed into a set style designed to take the world championship away from other champions who were trained traditionally and were used to a traditional fight.

If Mike had been trained the same way strictly, instead of building a style of fight on his natural traits and shorter size then I dont belive his fight style or his physche would have been as devastating.

Back to brains;
I think You can also beat brawn with brains,but it takes a cool head to run efficiently when under pressure.
This is where training under pressure and under every influence of fight style and pressure is used.
The not so naturally tough fighter can be guided along until he gets to a stage where he no longer questions his abilities and he becomes a free fighter who moves insinctivley through hard training so that his mind is freed up and he can go into the zone and be free enough to think one step ahead of someone who is phsically capable of taking him out with a few shots.

All that said differernt fighters need ways set out for them.
They got be in the right place at the right time ,right fights at the right time, so as to build up rank correctly.
Every fighter needs a solid jaw if they are planning on moving to the top in elite pro ranks.
They need to want the life, more than the money too.

On another note related;
whos done the IQ test on the top of the page?
I left school was kicked actually at 14 years age,end of form 3 or grade 9,went straight to a trade.
I got 137.